Not This Time, Diablo Cody

Marry me.

If I had gotten stupid emoticons to work properly with this board, right here is where I would use the "smiley_applause" animated gif.

Awesome rant!

I am having this forum post emailed to Karen Walton.

PS I went to high school with jason Reitman. He's not worried about anything because Daddy is IVAN reitman and that ghostbusters money isn't ever gonna run out.

Ha ha I'm looking at the estimates so far this weekend and Jennifer's Body may have bombed. Stay tuned...

Good to know I'm not the only one who thought JB was a blatent Snag on JS!

I thought of three more similarities I should have included in the original rant. The first is the titles of the films. Both are a clever wordplay twist on the monster's name. Ginger Snaps, as in bites like a wolf (or the cookie), and Jennifer's Body, as in the demon is using her body (or Megan Fox is a hottie). The second is that the plain Janes in both movies get "infected" by the monster and become one themselves. And the third is plain Jane's boyfriend gets killed by the monster in both movies.

Also, it's interesting to note that in the director's commentary for Juno (if I'm remembering correctly) Cody talks about being a fan of Ginger Snaps. Emily Perkins from GS plays the receptionist in the Juno abortion clinic, and just before the title songs/credits in Juno and Ginger Snaps the main character tells a dog to shut it. "Shut up Norman," and "Shut your gob Bannana."

Now, despite all of this, I still think that Jennifer's Body is technically an original movie, because the dialogue is original. I don't think you can really copyright a plot. If you could, there would only be one movie about a deranged killer running around at night chasing teenagers, one vampire movie, etc., and the horror genre would be kinda boring.

As a side note, on the last disc of Dexter they had the first two episodes of United States of Tara, both written by Cody. They were brilliant.

Thank you for saying this, man people on imdb have been creaming and actually comparing this to ginger snaps I have been tempting to write to them and say. "Yeah but Ginger Snaps is better and isn't' full of shit"

I guess a brief review could be, "It's just like Ginger Snaps, except without that certain quality of actually being a good movie".

On a related topic...

I think you're mistaking the media bullshit around Cody, with Cody herself. She's never been anything but honest about where she's from, what her influences are, and even what purpose the stripping career had. She hasn't pretended she was uneducated, or didn't have a "real" job. Most of what you're talking about is the media fixation with stripping, not Cody.

As for Jennifer's Body and Ginger Snaps. Yes, they are very similar. On purpose. That was, to my knowledge, the entire point of the movie. To deliberately subvert certain horror tropes about women that have previously only really been tackled in any depth by movies like Heathers and Ginger Snaps (technically Mean Girls, too). I think there's room for another movie to do that, especially the way Jennifer's Body was handled. Ginger Snaps is 9 years old. Heathers is 21. I think there's a danger of nostalgia poisoning with these movies, neither of which were big box office hits either. Both are much more appreciated after the fact, as cult classics. Because it's not an easy genre to work into the mainstream, and most people don't "get" them. That happened with both Heathers (people thought it was too dark and somehow advocated violence) and ditto Ginger Snaps. They're appreciated by horror fans, but not necessarily anyone else. Similarly, people didn't get Slither either. Which was an alien infection/zombie/monster retread done very well. Horror lends itself to similar plots because of its tropes.

I'd suggest reading her interview in Bust, actually, before writing her off. She wrote this movie very thoughtfully. And whether you like it or not (which I'm not actually arguing here, stories are in the personal preference zone) it does actually add something. I think it's easy to fall back on comparisons to old favorites. But it fails to take into the account the actual film.

FYI, in Gingersnaps, her male friend is killed. Not her boyfriend. They're pretty clear about a lack of interest from both characters. I appreciate the similarities in tone and basic concept, but it's important to represent it fairly. Jennifer's Body is about a friendship so obsessive and poisonous that it takes one of them becoming an actual monster for the other to break away. Gingersnaps is about two sisters with, yes, a damaging relationship. But it's more about the animalistic quality of female sexuality taken to an extreme. They have similar themes, but different emphasis.

Also, in the Comicon interview with Reitman, Cody is seen telling him to stop putting down the fans. She's a horror/comics fan herself. And Fox, like her or not, was right for this role.

I honestly do think a lot of the criticisms about Cody are based in sexism, regardless of the gender of the critique-r. There's a level of hostility I find perplexing, when all she's done is write two films in genre's she loves.

I think one of the major problems I have with Cody is the lack of any human emotion in the characters she writes. I think she writes clever dialogue, but I don't think she has a good grasp on making her characters likeable, sympathetic, or well-crafted. I don't know if this is a choice she is making, or a lack of talent in that area. I suppose I'll never know.

This backlash against her is what happens when publicists and PR people shove someone down the public's throat at an alarming rate - when Entertainmnet Weekly hires a person to 'draw a younger audience to their readership' and then blows up in a PR campaign about what a genius she is. When people in the industry award her an arguably undeserved Oscar (arguably, because it is a matter of opinion). People call her a 'liar' about her background because she makes a point of selling herself as an ex-stripper while her book/blog almost always degrades the people she worked with and laughs at them, while all the time she had parents she could get money from when/if she needed it, and the other strippers couldn't. yet she claims, often, that she had nothing to eat but baloney sandwiches when she was stripping because she and her husband were so poor (the husband who was mysteriously kicked to the curb as soon as she got famous and rich becayuse dating edgar wright was much cooler and better for her career, a move probably approved of by her publicists and manager or even suggested by them).

Basically, i just don't like her. I wouldn't like her if she lived down my street and had an ordinary job. She comes off as shallow in her book, shallow in interviews, and shallow in her screenplays. That bothers me. I personally don't like her writing - it's just not to my personal taste. I am sick of her being lauded as genius when I personally don't think she is. This makes me want to say bad things about her on forums in order to vent the frustration I feel at having spent the last year seeing her everywhere and disagreeing with so many TV personalities who say what they are told to say, which is 'She's so talented'.

Anyway, I like warm, intelligent people who seem to understand people around them instead of just exploiting them. that's just the kind of person I like. Cody is not like that. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe she is, but all I have to go by is what the media tells me about her, and they present a shallow and mainstream writer wearing a black hair/leopard print costume to look appealing to young people. I hope she knows how she comes off, and if she isn't that, that she changes her image.

Tired Fairy, Bridget and Cherry Hound's relationship was more than platonic. They never kissed, never came out and said it, but the chemistry was unmistakable. If the movie had a happy ending they would have hooked up, true love style. To be fair, I guess I could have mentioned that Megan Fox has attended prior Comic Cons on her own, just to point out that she actually can be kind of cool sometimes. Megan Fox is super cool as long as she's not pretending to be a feminist or bragging about her tattoos. I've defended her on this board before. Well, not really defended, but I did say that it wasn't her fault Jennifer's Body wasn't a good movie, and that she probably would be as good or as bad as the film's director inspired her to be.

Heidi hit the nail on the head with the PR campaign stuff. It makes people recoil in self defense. The reason I titled my original post, Not This Time, is because I was one of the few people who refused to jump on the anti-Cody bandwagon when Juno came out. The down-our-throats PR aggrivated me, but I forced myself to let it slide for the sake of a female artist making it to the top, which is a big deal in the male dominated industry. But I felt my good will dwindling the moment the hype machine kicked into high gear for Jennifer's Body. I tried to ignore it, but when she made the comment about how this idea had not been tried with women in a horror movie, that was the final straw.

I do think Diablo Cody is a literary genius. Heidi hit the nail on the head yet again when she called Cody's dialogue soulless - it definately is. Cody's dialogue is cold, hostile, and totally unrealistic. But every once in awhile she "turns on the flash" and her words knock you off your feet. Not because she's believably advancing the plot or making you feel sympathy for her characters, but because you catch a glimpse of genius. Cody's dialogue is like a suit of armor. Cold, off putting, but sometimes you can't help but admire how shiny it is.

Diablo Cody's dialogue is indeed sarcastic, cold and off putting, but I don't even care about that, I'm a dark, sarcastic person myself. Just because Diablo Cody can write witty dialogue doesn't make her a literary genius. I'm not saying she's not talented, just, overrated. I don't even care about her background, I don't have time to care about that shit. Considering how many "well-known" "marketable" female screeenwriters there are in of Hollywood, I understand the hoopla, but I don't have to agree with it. I have not joined any bandwagons for or against her, but will honestly give my opinion of the moment. Hollywood is overdue for publicly acknowledging female contributions and Diablo Cody rolls off the tongue and is easy on the eyes.

Ginger Snaps was a great movie and if Diablo Cody is a fan, as she's proven, I understand now where and why the similarities lie. Yes, modern updates are always in demand. End of story.

All said, Jennifer's Body did not live up to expectations. Maybe it didn't "bomb" cuz it didn't cost that much to make. It will make its money back and more on DVD, but the less than $7 million opening weekend proved several things, 1) Megan Fox is not ready to open her own movie, Jennifer Aniston v. Megan Fox, let's let the viewers decide...people like to talk about Megan Fox but that doesn't mean they're gonna pay to go see her, especially over America's favorite jilted sweetheart; 2) nobody outside Hollywood really knows who Diablo Cody is, her name alone is not enough to market the movies she writes, this is debatable, writer names like good stripper names should be unforgettable if you pick the right one, and 3) Fox Atomic dropped the ball. They relied to heavily on Megan Fox's tabloid showboating to sell their movie.

Megan Fox, super hot, no debate. Although, her acting trashy for attention is getting old fast. Acting ability? Fair? Average? I have yet to see her to do anything awesome. Lindsay Lohan has better thespian skills than her. I'll give her credit though. She's young, just starting out and Michael Bay is no Scorsese, maybe she just hasn't hooked up with the right director yet. I wasn't making any inneudos either.

I dunno what else to say but the adverse opinions are not all "based in sexism."

Ok I have finally seen Jennifer's Body and this is my post in defending us feminist horror writers at imdb who said feminist horror movie writers sucked.

Feminist writers do not suck, Diablo sucks, the direction was ok not wonderful but it fit the mood. If you guys like American Psycho don't know if you know Mary Harron and Guinevere Turner are indeed noted feminists and do not suck and that movie was great in my opinion. But that was already published material and they were screenwriters and Mary was the director but they handled the material well I thought.

You know I don't know what Diablo is trying to do I think that was a big marketing ploy but she gives Feminists indeed a very bad name and I don't appreciate it and just because one makes a movie and that is mostly made by women with female subject matter doesn't necessarily make it a "feminist" movie.

I for one who am BIG fan of the horror genre and like seeing women empowered in roles in the genre. I thought the movie was horrible. I didn't like the characters at all. *****Spoilers*****The only one I liked was the Goth kid sans the stupid part where he was jamming in the car. But his death was effective maybe because he didn't get a lot of screen time and the dumb boyfriend was ok.***** But Jennifer and Needy were stupid and unlikeable and one was suppose to be nerdy but was really just a hot chick in glasses and that lesbian scene was just stupid. I didn't' feel empowered or anything. This wasn't a feminist movie this was stupid. If I wanted to see horror movie where a girl kick some ass I would go watch Aliens, Day of the Dead,(the original) Terminator I know I'm mentioning cyberpunk, but you get the picture. What I can't stand and what pisses me off Diablo had the nerve to say there has never been a movie liked this before yes there has it was called Ginger Snaps and it was tons better than this piece of *beep* and wasn't seen a whole lot I urge you all to see it.

I mean that's fine if some people like movies like that. But Diablo Cody is just a idiot hipster who thinks she is being hip with the kids saying BFF and thanks that's relating to the females of today and that's feminism. ***Spoilers** The part where Jennifer says "My tit" and Needy says "No you're heart" She failed at it miserably. I just wanted you to know not all of us are like that. Diablo is just a *beep* moron not a feminist maybe she is one or calls herself one. BUT WE SHE DOESN’T REPRESENT US OR ME AT LEAST Besides all we want is just equality. Damn media makes us look like we are all man haters. I’m not and I love dudes and I love horror movies. I just wanted to be treated equally that's all. I just wanted to say do not let Diablo Cody make you think differently about women writers in horror there are a lot of good stuff out there by women in horror and I suggest you seek it out. Check out Ginger Snaps I have to go watch that right now to redeem myself again after seeing that piece of *beep* Diablo is just a aging hipster trying to be relevant and failed. She is just a moron who just happens to be a woman. It's really sad because Juno was smart and cute movie, but its like she went in reverse in this one she had to rely on the cliches

My boyfriend who really doesn't like horror movies and didn't even liked Ginger Snaps thought Ginger snaps was the better movie compared to Jennifer's Body. It had no soul. It did have its moments. I did like the part where she said Hell is a teeange girl. Because well that's is true, but teenagers is hard for anyone but yes for girls I can totally relate to that and that is very good line. There was some funny moments. I do commend Megan Fox for trying new things. But I do not endorse someone getting so skinny 97 pounds I read she lost to be more sick looking for this part? I'm all about getting into the character, but that's ridiculous. I'm all about horror and comedy,but recent teen comedy contemporary teen comedy is well doesn't bode well with me and maybe I'm not hip with the kids I don't know. But its like she doesn't know when to blend the two things together really well. On a 1 to 10 scale I give it a 3 that's cool lance was in your movie, but he couldn't save the movie. Hahah for trying to play to my nostalgia Diablo but your little trick didn't work!!

Oh by the way I kind of found something really offensive, well I don't know maybe she was trying to be "hip". She had a character that happened to be Latino he was a male guard and he was like "Five more mins Needy" and she was like "Garcias Raymundo"

I was offended because he didn't say it in fucking spanish he said in english. I think it was her way of being hip or whatever but it fucking annoying.

Man, the more I read the more I love this place.

There's nothing really to add that hasn't already been said. But I want to state that Amanda Seyfried is ten times more adorable than the uber manufactured fuckface that is Megan Fox. She's also going to have ten times the career because she is actually talented.

Second, the moment I watched JUNO my eyes were rolling so hard they almost tore themselves loose. The character of Juno would have gotten a "Jesus shut the fuck up" from me in real life. And Ellen Page bugs the holy shit out of me anyway (and I'm starting to hear she's as big an egomaniac as Megan Fox...though I've never met her myself)

This thread had me spitting the proverbial milk through my nose those, so thanks for that. I needed the laughs today.

I watched this film last week and thought it was alright. Not quite the abomination I heard it was, but certainly a lot of missed opportunities.

It's pretty obvious Cody's screenwriting skills are set pretty low. I mean, you have a girl demon that looks hotter whenever she feeds on boys. The situation is ripe for social commentary, yet she doesn't even bother.

And the relationship between Needy and Jennifer seemed more a convenience for the plot than anything else. And the big kissing scene was just tacked into the movie for the buzz factor, nothing more, another half-baked idea that fizzled out.

I won't even get into Megan Fox's (lack of) acting ability. The writing alone should have been enough to doom this flick to the "direct to DVD" trail. And that leads me to the real crime here, that this movie got a national release while Trick 'R Treat was grudgingly given a DVD release. Guess it's more about the buzz you can generate out in Hollywood, rather than the actual product.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this; Look at Trick R Treat. Great film. straaaaight to DVD, and why? When Jennifer's Body got such a huge theatrical. Friends, Buzz, who-you-know, and who stars in your film.

I agree that there wer so many moments to really explore the characters that were completely ignored; the kiss, the early childhood friendship, the fact that Needy calls jennifer 'socially irrelevant', that jennifer kills Needy's boyfriend.. so many moments to explore the relationship between these two women that just went by the wayside for tacky one-liners.

Halfway through Jenn's Body, and I feel like a little like I'm being bullshitted. Could be the stripper in Cody's DNA. Fox is hot, no question, but the dialog really grates in spots and the only time it sort of works is when it reduces itself to standard fare. Maybe I'm not dead-center of its target audience, dunno. But why do I need to find out what happens to a hot girl who gets hotter after eating boys?

i watched jennifer's body two nights before leaving pittsburgh. i just couldn't stand to be reminded of that occurring in my living room every day.

Thankyou for that, Ginger Snaps has always been one of my favorites, and Jennifer's body ( despite Seyfried and Fox being very...ahem alluring) just didn't take the cake, there was plenty of opportunity for it to be amazing, but It was just kinda lame...I mean, the dialogue at times was just rediculous. But I appreciate you taking Cody's remarks down a peg and showing them for what they really are; A cop-out to abstain themselves from criticism.